There are no stars at all for some of us
Hey! Internet! I've just been talking about how much it sucks when a novel kills off its queer characters. Especially when there's, like, one of them and they're the one who doesn't make it. Can someone point me toward a list of books where that doesn't happen? Spoilers, whatever.
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I have enjoyed many books where people of various sexualities don't make it to the endnotes. (I love
but the epic fantasies, The Devil in the Dust et seq or Bridge of Dreams et seq, those certainly feature gay characters who don't die. Also that Daniel Fox person, Dragon in Chains et seq: you have to wait a while, but there they are. Not dying.
Thank you for this wholly disinterested recommendation!
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The other one is The Silver Metal Lover, in which Gay Best Friend is kind of one-dimensionally campy but does make it to the end of the book alive and well after having had a sex life and all.
Oh, wait--Francesca Lia Block's books have a lot of gay/bi characters who have a very good track record of surviving to the end of the book and getting on with their lives. There are one or two minor characters who are tragic and victimized and melodramatic, but the mainstays are Dirk and Duck from the Weetzie Bat series, and the title characters from Violet and Claire, and most of the characters in the short stories in Girl Goddess #9.
I recognize that a lot of people find Block insufferable, but I have a deep and old love for her work in general, and I can still remember particularly how weird it felt when I read Witch Baby as a kid and there was a same-sex couple who were reasonably well-adjusted people and had a good relationship and didn't die.
Tom and Carl from the Wizards books by Diane Duane--well, I know they're secondary mentor characters, but it would have been easy for Duane to kill one or both of them and send the protagonists out for revenge. Instead of which, they're still standing while many other secondary characters have bitten the dust.
I would have used the word "queer" for convenience in the above comments, except that I'm uncomfortable using reclaimed slurs. Mind you, I'm not saying this to shut you or anyone else down. But I feel weird about it when it comes to me using the term. On one hand, it's such a handy blanket term when "gay" would be too specific. On the other hand I don't want to sound like I'm using an insult/a slur/speech that I'm not entitled to; also, I've spent too much time around people who used it as a slur. So I'm conflicted. Do you ever feel this conflict?
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(not that I've forgiven Door Into Shadow for using [trigger warning trauma] as a character motivator. But it features some of the best dragons ever so that makes me keep it around.)
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The Mask of Apollo is my favorite novel by Mary Renault. I have a talismanic copy—it's not the one from the used book store in Provincetown, because I gave that one to Dr. Fiveash, but it's a library discard I've had since high school. I keep vaguely wanting to write a poem about Axiothea, but I'd need to differentiate her from Renault's version. There's very little known about her historically.
The other one is The Silver Metal Lover, in which Gay Best Friend is kind of one-dimensionally campy but does make it to the end of the book alive and well after having had a sex life and all.
Clovis! I forgive him a lot for being seventeen and nowhere near as world-weary as he tries to sound. He's getting much better at friendship by the end of the book.
but the mainstays are Dirk and Duck from the Weetzie Bat series, and the title characters from Violet and Claire, and most of the characters in the short stories in Girl Goddess #9.
Okay, that's cool. I've read much less Francesca Lia Block than most people in my age/reading bracket, so thanks for the recommendations!
Tom and Carl from the Wizards books by Diane Duane--well, I know they're secondary mentor characters, but it would have been easy for Duane to kill one or both of them and send the protagonists out for revenge. Instead of which, they're still standing while many other secondary characters have bitten the dust.
Tom and Carl rock. And since I haven't read any of the novels past A Wizard Abroad, I'm glad to know they're still around!
So I'm conflicted. Do you ever feel this conflict?
I describe myself as queer; it's accurate. I also answer to bisexual. I am interested in people and that includes genderqueer people, but bi erasure is a thing and let's not have any more of it, thanks.
[edited for runaway italics]
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Generally I only worry about this when referring to specific people, though if your audience doesn't know you well enough to know you're using it as an umbrella term for convenience, it's nice to put in a little caveat. But I'll use it to talk about the LGBT(etc.) community because it's more inclusive or when referring to a non-specific member who has an unspecified queer identity, and I'll use the more specific gay or trans or gender queer or bisexual if that's more relevant. I do like the term QUILTBAG but I don't use it because I've discovered that too many people don't know what I mean, so it's not helpful for being concise because I have to explain why QUILTBAG.
For individuals, I might say [name] is member of the queer community, but I wouldn't say [name] is queer unless I know [name] specifically identifies that way.
But other people do feel differently, so it can be tricky to navigate what's appropriate.
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You did and it totally counts! Just not as a book I can recommend to other people or take down off my shelf rather than my hard drive.
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Awesome. I haven't read anything by Graham, despite knowing that she's written at least one classical novel. Reincarnational melange?
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The Northern Girl by Elizabeth Lynn
Cyteen by C.J. Cherryh (lousy things happen to the gay characters, but hey, lousy things happen to almost everyone in that book)
Don't know whether you want manga, but here:
The manga series Samurai Deeper Kyo (both negative and positive portrayals of gay people; the most prominent of them is still alive and leading a productive, fairly contented life at the end, as part of a community)
The (short) manga series Antique Bakery
The manga series FAKE
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(lousy things happen to the gay characters, but hey, lousy things happen to almost everyone in that book)
(That's fair. See above to
Don't know whether you want manga, but here
Will totally read manga. I should hit up my cousins for recommendations in that department, too.
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There's also the entire social structure of the planet O, in some of Ursula K. LeGuin's short stories (I think in A Fisherman of the Inland Sea)- where a marriage is 4 people, two men, two women, and each person is supposed to be sexually involved with one person of each gender (trying to summarize briefly).
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"It's just as complicated as it sounds, but aren't most marriages?" (Mountain Ways)
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I have found myself unable to re-read Mercedes Lackey after the initial adolescent experience, in which I read everything from Arrows of the Queen (1987) through The Silver Gryphon (1996) and then burnt out. I know she was formative for a lot of people, but I think it missed me. I do appreciate the reminder, though!
There's also the entire social structure of the planet O, in some of Ursula K. LeGuin's short stories (I think in A Fisherman of the Inland Sea)- where a marriage is 4 people, two men, two women, and each person is supposed to be sexually involved with one person of each gender (trying to summarize briefly).
Yes! "Another Story, or A Fisherman of the Inland Sea" is the title story in A Fisherman of the Inland Sea (1994); "Unchosen Love" and "Mountain Ways" are collected in The Birthday of the World (2002). Which I love.
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Gwyneth Jones has a series starting with Bold as Love that has a variety of characters with gender fluidity and features a trio of bisexual polyamorous heroes who go through a ton of bad shit, but don't die for being queer. Also, it's an Arthur pastiche set against the backdrop of British Green politics and folk festivals.
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I have never read either of those, or even heard of the latter. Thank you!
Gwyneth Jones has a series starting with Bold as Love that has a variety of characters with gender fluidity and features a trio of bisexual polyamorous heroes who go through a ton of bad shit, but don't die for being queer. Also, it's an Arthur pastiche set against the backdrop of British Green politics and folk festivals.
You know, I own a British paperback of Bold as Love, but can't remember what I thought of it and never read past it in any case. I should do that. I have her Aleutian trilogy, which I like.
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I just need most of Joel's books in my life, don't I?
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You know, I've read the first two, but not the third, which is really kind of incredible. I shall track it down. Thank you for the reminder!
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I've only read the first of Tanya Huff's Quarters series, Sing The Four Quarters, although I believe
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Checking through my recentish reads: the heroine of Hild is bisexual and is the protagonist, so therefore seems likely to survive at least 'til the end of the series. Alaya Dawn Johnson's The Summer Prince does kill off one of its queer characters but a.) that is kind of inherent in the premise and b.) there are at least four more who make it to the end. Melina Marchetta's Finnikin of the Rock series is one of those book series where everyone ends up as part of a Designated Couple, and there is only one Designated Gay Couple, but BY GOD is that Designated Gay Couple going to have a decades-spanning romance and a happy ending!
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I don't mind random comments at all. Thank you for joining the conversation!
My favorites are the duology Dreamships and Dreaming Metal, where now that I think of it there seem to be practically no het relationships at all among the various main characters. (Also spectacular world-building.)
I've read Melissa Scott's A Choice of Destinies, The Armor of Light, and two of her Astreiant novels with Lisa A. Barnett (although I can't find my hardcover of Point of Dreams at the moment, which is disconcerting; I went looking for it the night I wrote this post), but none of the ones you mention. I do not require het relationships and spectacular worldbuilding is a plus. I'll look for them!
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Can we also exclude books where the queer character is left alive but miserable/alone/grieving while everyone else gets a happy ending?
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YES I FUCKING HATE THOSE.
Or bravely bearing up, which is just as bad. Or the author doesn't even notice, which is worse.
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*makes lots of notes*
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Thank you! Chaz actually recc'd himself above, but I do not discount a second opinion!